Welcome in to a special edition of the fun astrology podcast. You got Thomas and Stephanie back. Hi, Stephanie. Hi, Thomas, very happy to be here with you on this segment and really excited. We got a good topic. Well, we do. And came from one of your questions. One of you listeners questions, Lizzie, and this was so good.
So a couple of weeks back when you and I were doing this segment on Virgo, the moon in Virgo, in the medical segment that you prepared in our after chat that we do. We talked about the rulership of Virgo being mercury and a very prominent and valid question among astrologers is, is mercury the best fit even in the elements series, Steve forest, the starts the section on Virgo with that very point.
So it’s a valid point in astrology to question the hand in glove ness of mercury and. Well, we scratched our heads and Froud our browse and speculated that maybe Kyron you, you brought it up that maybe Kyron would be a more modern consideration. And to that comment, we got this. My name is Lizzie. I’ve been thinking about this for a few weeks, ever since your conversation with Stephanie about the sign of Virgo for the medical astrology section.
On their YouTube. We’re discussing how mercury is the ruler for the sign of Virgo. However, there’s a little bit of incongruency between the characteristics of mercury and verb. I have to say that through the lens of modern astrologer that I agree, there are a lot of incongruencies YouTube went on to discuss Kyron, being a better fit for Virgo in our modern era.
I don’t really agree with that. I feel that Sarah’s is more of a better fit for Virgo. Sarah says the goddess of the grain, and I feel that Kyron actually fits with a few. And I know that a fucus isn’t in our current wheel of the Zodiac, but I believe that one day it will be just as Pluto was discovered in the 1930s.
And it was used in modern astrology today. I believe that in a hundred years of fucus will be common speak in the modern astrology. This has a lot to do with my belief in the collective consciousness, and I feel that astrology, you have. Uh, crux within all of that. And I would like to know your thoughts on it, Thomas.
Thank you. Well, I did better than my thoughts on it. I brought Stephanie back. Yes. I’m so happy to be a part of this conversation. Thank you so much, Lizzie, for this question. This brings up some excellent points and I’m excited to discuss well, and I am so impressed with our color. I’ve said you guys are the boots.
Listeners. And even Stephanie, you came to the reason you’re here is because you were listening and you booked a reading and yeah. So I’m, I’m saying I got the coolest listeners in the world and Lizzie. I want to sit down and talk with you. I think you and Stephanie and I need to do a show where we get on together and we just chat.
And I love where you’re going with your thinking on this, because I think these conversations of where the consciousness is going is cutting edge and a lot of astrologers won’t go there. So we have really two questions and I am going to Stephanie, the audio book narrator in me has to come out here. You know when I’m narrating one of these books, whether it’s for Fred or for Steve or anybody.
I have two browsers up. One is dictionary.com and one is Miriam webster.com. And I go back and tweak between the two and make sure when there’s a word that I’m not sure of, that I check the pronunciation. Sarah series is, is the technical pronunciation for what is spelled C E R E S. We’ll talk about all this in a minute.
And so we’re talking about series, the dwarf planet. That’s kind of conversation number one, and then conversation her point, um, of series being a better fit for Virgo. So that’s conversation, number one. And conversation, number two, this one gets really wonky and I know we’re going to all be, it’s like, it’s a tough one to pronounce off UCASS is how you pronounce the 13th constellation, if you will offer UCASS.
So we’re going to use those pronunciations. So, first of all, let’s Stephanie, let’s kick around. Thoughts and some background on what series is, let’s start at the beginning and tell people what series is all about. Yeah. So Lindsey is right on, she is a goddess of grain, but more specifically agriculture in general.
So she represents, you know, gardening, the connection to mother earth. Um, she’s like the quintessential mother and we could get a bit into the mythology, um, and kind of discuss the whole story. With series, um, but kind of long story short, she had this incredible relationship with her daughter per Stephanie.
Um, and this is in the Roman and mythology is also great, but she has, her name is Demeter and the Greek mythology. Um, and basically the her relationship with was so close. They watched over the earth. They, um, helped provide the abundance throughout the year. You know, that. Cycles and the growth of, of agriculture.
And they did not want to be separated. So apparently for Stephanie was quite a Looker and she was in demand by quite a few of the gods and they were not happy that series wanted to keep her and just basically. Live life with just those two. They, I mean, they, they wanted to marry per Stephanie. So one day, uh, per Stephanie was out wandering in the fields and admiring all the flowers and the blooming beauty of the earth and springtime.
And she happened to pick a narcissist flower and it was then that Pluto God of the underworld chemo. And took her to become his bride and queen. He had been lusting after her for a long time and he. Made her as ride and took her down and didn’t let anybody know. And series started to realize her daughter was gone and she was absolutely like devastated.
She couldn’t eat your foods to sleep, bathe anything. She was wandering around looking for her daughter and she belongs very short. She basically comes across to the Sungod Helio’s who says he saw everything and told her to be abduction and. She, she basically goes to Zeus and complaints about this. And, you know, after a while there’s, there was, uh, an agreement that was made that perception you would spend half of her time of the year in the underworld and half of her time, um, up there with series on, you know, ruling over earth.
So it kind of goes with the cycles. So during winter, You know, when things start to die off that’s when perception is in the underworld. And then when she comes back up, that’s when everything starts to bloom. And so it’s this really interesting relationship of like motherhood, fertility, agriculture, uh, I think these are really important things to series.
I can see how Lizzie would think that that’s a really good fit for Virgo, but I have to take a different stance than her, where I think it’s better suited for tourists because tourists is, you know, the gardening sign. It’s the connection to the earth. It is about agriculture and food and nurturing. I think that even mothering, you know, maybe we could argue a little bit of cancer in there, but I think that mothering, you know, taking care of things in the spring and, and tending to the new buds and the new plants, that’s a very Torian theme.
Yeah. That was what I boiled down. Series two was the earth mother. If you, when you take the core essence, now, a couple of other points on the mythology. Series is the sister of Zeus. So when you mentioned she went to zoos, she was going to her brother and in Egypt, one LOR series is represented by ISIS. So there’s that whole theme of, like you say, there is this royalty almost with the metaphor of series.
The other thing that was interesting is that if you look at the other asteroids and I’m actually getting ready to work on the fun astrology 1 0 1 course with, um, Kyron. So there’s this, you can weave all of this together, but these dwarf planets, these asteroids, Juno, Vesta, Pallas, and series all represent feminine energy, which I think is very interesting.
That this has come up because we’re headed toward, I should say we’re headed away from the male patriarchal era that we’ve been in for the last 2000 years and these feminine energies are blossoming. So I think it’s kind of time Stephanie, to kind of say, move over. We need to work a couple of more symbols in on our astrological charts here.
I think this is a very important conversation. Yes. And I have to agree with, you know, Lizzie with mercury, not maybe being the best fit for Virgo. And I, I do like keeping that open mind and allowing for other, you know, differing thoughts and ideas for each sign, like you’re saying. Um, I, I do think that I see her point with series, but even though Chiron’s technically like amazing.
Uh, you know, he’s got a male or a masculine disposition. I do think that being of service and wanting to help others is a real strong theme for, for Virgo. So I, I feel personally that Kyron is a better fit for Virgo. And I like to hear your take on it too, Thomas, on, on how you feel that fits well, that picks up on your healthcare experience because being in healthcare is being of service.
And because I just recorded this stuff on Kyron for the one-on-one. It’s fresh on my mind to me, Chiron’s paradigm is healing the wounds. So there is the healing now, extruding that I liked the way you did that to service. But to me, the main characteristic of Kyron is healing. The wound that basically stays with us for our life.
In other words, this is a wound that is seared into our conscious. A wound that quite frankly, we probably brought with us. And as I’ve been talking about on our healing convergences on Sunday nights on our Facebook group and also a couple of the latest subconscious mind mastery podcasts, and even here, I mean, we, we brought this energy to this time and place under Saturn.
Pluto’s very transformational. Now, Steve Forrest, I pulled a little section. I went back and looked at the book of earth and I saw how he treated it. And he started this section right there, like I said, with the very conversation about this questioning mercury, but where he went with, it was down the line of the symbolism, the other symbolism of Virgo being the maiden, the Virgin, that essence of purity us without the wound.
In other words, So, what he extruded was Virgo is about what we do with that in this lifetime. So I’d like to read just one quick section. So we get a context of what he said here, quoting Steve. He said earlier, I said that we would make a case for Virgo being the most exciting sign of the Zodiac. Well, we’re here we are all here on earth to grow, and there is no more efficient mechanism for growth than Virgo.
With planets in Virgo, you are burning evolutionary rocket fuel in principle. Your level of drive of divine discontent is such that you will not waste a moment of this precious human incarnation. You will go do yourself, press yourself, and never rest on your laurels. And. So we’re back to does mercury fit that context?
So here are, here were my thoughts. Um, I boiled it down to four things. I thought point number one, we kinda mentioned collective consciousness is moving toward feminine energy. So I do think it is something that we need to start. And I’m going to start doing that. Uh, I’ll have to work it in, but I’m going to start looking at these symbolisms in charts more often.
The second point is the nurturing. And I think that that’s where, what Lizzie is saying and picking up on the nurturing piece, the mentoring piece that definitely Ceres does present. Okay. But my point number three is. None of these are a perfect fit. Mercury’s not a perfect fit. Kyron is not a perfect fit and series is not a perfect fit.
So that leads to my fourth point. Virgo is a more complicated sign than we give it credit. Um, yes, I completely agree. I completely agree. Yeah. I have to agree with your, your take on it because there’s elements of each. That could fit Virgo, but not one thing perfectly. I mean, Kyren was known for, you know, his knowledge and his skills with medicine and, you know, it was involved with like the discovery of botany and pharmacy and herbs and all of that.
And that’s something that I think Virgo, she’s thinking of grain, herbs, those kinds of things that definitely can tie in and obviously the service and wanting to heal, which could be equated with like wanting to perfect something or wanting to fix something and make it right again. Uh, but series that nurturing quality and that mothering and that connection to the earth, it just doesn’t fully fit either.
Uh, so I mean, but then mercury doesn’t really talk about service and all of that. It is definitely more of the intellectual, you know, up in the, up in the mind, analytical, precise type nature. So there’s like elements of each one that could be. You know, whenever we can have conferences again safely, it will be really interesting to see what astrology conferences do with this question.
I’ll bet. It is definitely on the docket in meetings and years to come. Absolutely. Yes, it’s it is really fascinating. I think Virgo sometimes maybe gets put in a box and I don’t think you can do that at all with a sign. And I mean, you and I, both Thomas, we have quite a lot in our six tiles, so we don’t necessarily have like a Virgo sun, moon or rising, but we have a lot of strong Virgo, six health energy, and I think it can be incredibly complicated.
It’s not just straight forward, you know? Oh, the maiden and service. I mean, there’s so much more to it. Yeah. There really is. Really is. Okay. That was a great point. And that’s only part one folks. This is a Sunday chat for sure. All right. Let’s talk now about the serpent bearer offer. UCASS the 13th sign and what really got all this started was I think this article or this, uh, online blog that NASA put out.
Saying, maybe there should be a 13th sign in the Zodiac now, just so we’re talking about the same thing. Let me just do this piece and then Stephanie, I’m going to let you pick it up from there. That basically when we look up in the sky and we consider what is the Zodiac well around the earth is a ring is a, an axis that’s called the ecliptic line.
It’s a circle that goes around. And along that ecliptic line are the 12 signs of the Zodiac. Beginning with Aries, as we start the calculation it with the spring Equinox and going in order and within the constellations are the various planets. So I’ve always said, isn’t it just so unusual that randomly through some big explosion, all these things just right in place, it’s like, wow.
For you to, for you to believe or follow astrology and not believe in divine order would just be a really difficult assignment. I have to say, because it is so precise and so well orchestrated and so magnetic. Well, there is another constellation up there that the ancient Caldeans. So what are we going back about?
Five, 6,000 years did not put into the 12 sign Zodiac that we follow today and that constellation is off UCASS. So it was always there. It’s always been up. It just wasn’t included when the Cal DNS put all of this together or the aliens, I think aliens handed it to the Cal DNS, but however it came about, we didn’t, we haven’t had them for 6,000 years.
And now there’s the, where there was this question and I think it’s been basically tabled for the time being NASA scratching its chin saying, should we have. Incorporated this constellation off. UCASS the serpent. Yeah. So it is really interesting that they left it out. They wanted there to be an equal number.
So they, they purposely left it out. It’s, it’s kind of fascinating because it’s not at the end of the Zodiac. It’s not something that, you know, follows after Pisces, which maybe some people would think, oh, the 13th sign, it’s going to logically follow after Pisces, but it’s actually the constellation that sits between Scorpio and Sagittarius.
And like you mentioned, it’s always been there. They just left it out because it wouldn’t equate to an equal or to them and evenly divided wheel. Um, so technically if you could put it as a sign, it would be from the dates of November 29th to December 17th. And this, the, the name off UCASS means serpent bear.
So it’s depicted as a man that is wrangling a reading snake. And a lot in ancient mythology will depict snakes as a symbol of healing and medicine. Uh, we’ve got, you know, for the medical and the doctors, uh, we all know of Hermes and the Kudusa staff, which has the, it’s a wind rod and it has the two serpents and twined around it.
And that’s our symbol for medicine. So that’s kind of interesting. So yeah, he is described as this healer light bear, a true seeker and philosopher, uh, kind of interesting some of the characteristics that tie into Satch. Um, but you know, he hasn’t been attributed to an element. There’s no planet that’s.
Has been assigned to him so I could see where Lizzy is coming from. Um, it’s an interesting question. I would love to hear other astrologers, you know, talk more about this and us be more open-minded about including this sign. It does have some incredible points to it. These people love to teach. They want to spread knowledge.
You know, they’re quite humorous. They want to bring their light and heal others. Um, they, they tend to have good luck and they’re ambitious. Um, and also they stay calm under pressure, which makes them incredible healers. You don’t want someone that can’t handle a crisis situation, um, in, in a medical situation.
So now let’s say that they put it in, we wedged it in. So we start at November 29th. So really we’re not doing anything to Scorpio. We’re interrupting Sagittarius. We’re, we’re putting an edit, like an audio edit on a timeline and we’re breaking up Sagittarius and moving it down. So, if we did that, Stephanie, you are right now in Aries, what would you, what would you become in the new system?
Yes, it would put me as a Pisces. And what are you in Vedic? Astrology. I am a Pisces in Vedic astrology. Okay. And see, it would do the same for me. It would make me a Libra. Uh, I would be the first day of Libra. Actually. I would be on the cusp of Virgo and Libra. Instead of Scorpio. Now I’ll tell you one problem I have with that, it’s taken me 61 years to figure out my score.
I don’t have the time left to figure out labor and Virgo. I’m sorry.
Yeah, it’s a whole new ball game. It’s a whole different perspective. I mean, from something you’ve identified with and researched and investigated and for all this time, and then to be looking at it like, okay, maybe now I’m this, if off you kiss is put into this Hodiak how does that. Yeah. So I’m a little bit, uh, probably date me here, but, um, I am more of the camp and there actually, there’s not a lot out there to search up on this from a good astrological perspective.
There’s some, but not a lot. So it’s like, it’s something that astrology hasn’t really taken up should offer. UCASS be included in our Zodiac. Should we move over? And what Lizzie was saying, is that not only does she think that it’s going to have a place that it eventually through expanded consciousness is going to be recognized.
She also believes. That Kyron is going to be the best ruler for offer UCASS. Now, Stephanie, I got to say, I don’t have a comment on that because I don’t understand the, you did a great job of explaining what offer you cause how you would synthesize it. But I don’t have enough background on that or study on that to really know if Kyron would be a good fit or not.
So I’m going to take a little bit of a side pass here and our a hall pass and say, do you have thoughts on this? Yes. So I, like we mentioned earlier, I think it’s kind of hard to put it in a box with just saying that Kyron would be the better fit, because I don’t think that, you know, the herbs, the connection to the herbs and botany and things like that really fit what this sign, the descriptions for, for off you kiss it doesn’t really fully jive, but the healing part does.
Uh, so I think that’s where maybe this could be a sign like Virgo, where it’s quite complicated and it’s underestimated. And so we can’t really just assign it with one straightforward ruler. And I think there’s elements where it would fit. But then like with Virgo, not one single thing fully matches up to me in my eyes.
You know, there’s some debate of even Jupiter, the same ruler, um, as Sajan and an ancient astrology Pisces. For a fucus because that sign does have a lot of different are sorry. Excuse me, similarities to Sagittarius. And I can see that because they are like the light bearers. They tend to be big. They’re expansive.
They’re ambitious. They have good luck. It kind of seems like Jupiter could be in there. But then again, I don’t think that fully fits either because they are. They are healers. So it’s, it’s pretty amazing how complex astrology is when you start breaking it down. Oh, very much so. And there’s so much more in there that we certainly don’t talk about on this podcast because it just gets so deep.
What do you think about the whole expanded consciousness piece of this? I love that she’s brought this up. I think that this is something, you know, especially for me as I’ve been awakening a lot more, you know, going through my own personal changes in my life and some healing crises. I have become much more aware of the awakening of everything.
And I think that in general, a lot of people are moving towards that. I’m so happy to see this more open-mindedness and people allowing for these conversations with differing opinions and not. You know, saying that you’re right or wrong and just kind of an exploration. And I really hope that, that we get there in a hundred years.
I’m not quite so sure that we will, but I absolutely believe that we’re going to get there in the next couple of hundred years. I just think there’s quite a bit more that we need to work through in our evolution to get to that point. But I absolutely believe that we’re moving there and I’ve already seen in my generation.
Um, I’m technically a millennial. If I can date myself here, although I don’t fully relate to that generation, but I was born in 85 and I think a lot of people in my generation are really loving, being able to talk about different views and being more open and. Using more philosophy perspectives to life and not just putting things in a black and white box.
And she thinks that’s really incredible and wonderful to see. I think that’s something that we need as a species. We need to be open. You know, we have differences and they’re beautiful and not something to be open and to talk about and not just say it’s right or wrong. So I’m very happy that she brought up that point.
All right. So from that perspective, Here’s a system that has been with humans for about 6,000 years, six millennia. And it has stood the test of time. It’s almost been wiped out a couple of times. And even though a lot of literature was burned by the Catholic church in the middle ages, there’s been this Renaissance of astrology.
And I was listening to an interview with Judith Hill. Somebody that you. Use and I use, uh, your, you have her medical astrology books and a brilliant astrologer and somebody who grew up with it, I didn’t know her story, but she basically was introduced to it by her dad at age three, when he started, started showing her his charts and they started playing with them.
But that’s exactly how astrology is passed. It’s passed from one generation to the next, and it has been handed down like this. For thousands of years in that context of the shift, that is definitely among us right now. We are in it. This is what it looks like. And also considering Stephanie that we had to expand.
Remember, we didn’t know the ancient astrologers that Cal DNS couldn’t see Uranus with the naked eye they could, but they didn’t think they could. And they, for sure, couldn’t see. So we had to elbow over, right. We had to incorporate these, but we incorporated them into the existing grid. So as consciousness expands, do you think that we need to expand our system?
I mean, honestly, that’s such an awesome point. And for me personally, I know the outer planets have very much so affected me and I don’t think they’re to be taken lightly. Although there are many astrologers that would argue with me and say, just because you have Neptune conjunct your moon, it doesn’t mean that you’re going to have a lot of Neptunian traits.
It’s an outer plane. So we’re moving. It doesn’t affect you as much. I completely disagree though. So I think what the beautiful thing is, is about where we’re at in astrology is we are allowing for these conversations to take place. And there are many different types of astrology to practice. And some of them are including more of, you know, the newer, like the outer planets and, and making that important.
And some of some astrologers want to practice more of the ancient style because they have seen that. That’s what held true for them. So I think we’re moving more towards a space where these things could be incorporated, but maybe some don’t choose to do it. It’s like the different styles of astrology.
And I think that’s a beautiful thing too. You find what fits and feels right for you? Well, that’s absolutely true because now we could have the Vedic versus Western debate. Right. So people say, which works, is it, is it Western or is it . And the answer is they both work. They both work brilliantly. Exactly, exactly.
Yeah. So I think that’s an important thing to keep in mind. And the expanded consciousness in my mind means being open to all different areas and avenues and investigating everything and keeping an open mind. Okay. Here’s an answer that just came to mind. And I put this in the course when we were talking about some of the different ways of looking at charts.
And David Cochran, Gainesville, Florida. He is the designer of the serious and Kepler software programs. Brilliant astrologer. He does. What’s what he calls vibrational astrology. So he takes the mid points. So that’s basically, if two planets are on the. Uh, let’s say that one’s at 12 o’clock and one’s at six o’clock.
I’m just trying to create a good Sunday visual. So you don’t have to think about it. Let’s say once at the top, one’s at the bottom, one’s over at the three o’clock position in a square to the other two. That’s a mid point. Well, David calls that vibrational astrology and he divided the wheel up. Basically he can take a 360 degree.
And slice it as thin as one degree, if you wanted to, that would be the 360th harmonic, but at the harmonics look in between the aspects basically, and it draws a whole new chart based on how the harmonic or how the midpoints align. It’s amazing, fascinating stuff. And David is doing brilliant work with that and rarely uses a typical natal chart.
He puts up his vibrational harmonic charts. So I was just thinking, okay, yes, there’s going to be room for more. And I think over the next hundred years with this expanded consciousness, that because astrology has so many secrets, I mean, Stephanie, you can go slide into a one, 360th degree angle and get meaning out of something that thing.
So, yeah, why not? Would we expand our Zodiac, our astrological consciousness as we expand our collective consciousness? Why not? We should. Yes. I agree. We should, we should expand. Why not? And I think staying true to off UCASS, you know, these are inquisitive and independent thinkers. They challenge and question everything.
I think those are pretty awesome traits. I’m kind of wondering Lizzie, if you’re. If you’re born in between that time that we just stated, and this could be your sign. There you go. So she wouldn’t be affected. She liked trade in, sad for offer you. Cause she said, oh yeah, I’d do that. Yeah. I love it. You know, looking for the truth they’re seekers and they questioned things.
And I think there’s a lot of power and importance of. And maybe she’s been healing, some wounds in her lifetime to Lizzie. I would love to talk to you seriously. I think we could have a brilliant chat together. I’d like to bring you in as a third voice in a future, one of these kinds of conversations, because you’ve got some great points and I’d love to hear your thoughts.
And I like your style, Stephanie, thank you for the work that you did on this. First of all, I know it took some time and thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Well, thank you, Thomas. And thank you so much, Lizzie absolutely would love to definitely do a conversation with you and Thomas. I think it’s important to have different perspectives.
So thank you for bringing your perspective to us. So Stephanie, do you know what happens tomorrow morning at 1:10 AM. Hmm. I have a sneaking suspicion based on all of the crazy issues I’ve been having with technology lately. Is it possible? Mercury is going retro. I think it already has, but yeah. Yes. So we will be back to talk about that on tomorrow’s fun astrology podcast.
We’ll see you guys tomorrow. Stephanie. Thanks again. Great heaven. Thank you, Thomas.